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 Dummy-who was he?

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Paul O'Brien aka paulo
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PostSubject: Dummy-who was he?   Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:23 pm

Thanks Marcelle,a great idea...

Who was the mysterious Dummy who played such a prominent role in the 'Big Killing?.


He helped set the McSween house afire and was the first in to the yard following McSween's surrender call.He was'nt deaf or dumb or either;I've trolled all the names I possibly could without finding a likely suspect.As opposed to a lot of the fighters in the conflict who had several names, he does'nt appear to have given any.He sure had it in for McSween.

Just to start the ball rolling I'm going to suggest he was Billy Morton's brother who reportedly went to New Mexico to find out who killed his brother.They say he never came back.
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Marcelle Brothers
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:22 pm

It is strange how "Dummy" got by fighting on the Dolan/Boys side and no one knew who he was.

Everyone interviewed during the court inquiry on Lt. N.A.M. Dudley all say the same thing regarding "the Dummy." They all stated that they did not know his name or where he was from. They all agree he was playing deaf and dumb, but did eventually speak in the end. Since he did speak during the "Big Battle" at McSween's house, how could no one asked "hey, who are you?" is beyond me! scratch

Was he a brother of one of those killed? Was he some wacko who was passing through town and wanted to join in on the action?

You got me on this one Paulo.
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Cliff Caldwell
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:35 pm

Welcome paulo!!! Glad to see you came on over!

The mystery of "dummy" has perplexed me as well. I hope the group takes hold of this one and comes up with some good prospect to go along with, or support, your. Personally, I have no clue. I know it was not Elvis. During the time of the LCW it was commonplace to refer to people who were mentally retarded (the old politically incorrect term) as “dummy”, so perhaps that was the genesis of his nickname?
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:01 am

Cliff your name sounds like you ought to have been an old western movie actor. Very Happy
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Cliff Caldwell
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Thu Jan 29, 2009 12:57 am

lol!

If so my parents should have named me "Clint" or "Duke". My nickname as a boy was "Butch", so I guess that sounds kind of western.
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Bronte
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:40 pm

I had started to ask this question a while back over on the other site.I've always wondered who the man named Dummy was and what was he all about? I guess he is a mystery and how would one go about finding out who he really was? because I'm just a novice here but with an open mind wanting to learn the real facts about what happened way back then. scratch
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Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Mon Feb 02, 2009 5:13 am

another mystery surrounding the LCW...is it any wonder we're all fascinated with the subject? Neutral
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Mon Feb 02, 2009 4:17 pm

My personal library of LCW books is pretty extensive and when this question was first posted, I began a index search on "The Dummy" or "Dummy" and came up with nothing new. Almost every reference contains a statement similar to "he was known as Dummy" who passed himself off as deaf and dumb, but was eventually made to speak.

Since most publications use the same or similar sources, I think this mystery will be a tough one to solve.

At the Dudley Court of Inquiry, John Long's testimony includes the following:
Q. How many men had you there in the tower, who were they.
A. Had 5 men besides myself. JB Matthews, Jim Reese, Sam Perry, Jim McDaniels and a man called Dummy.

Q. Where were these men from ?
A. Sam Perry from Lincoln, Reese from Spring River or Chisum's ranch, Matthews from Lincoln county, Dummy from Lincoln, did not ask him where he was from.

Q. You say a man called Dummy was with you, who was he and why do you call him Dummy ?
A. Because he came there acting the Dummy. Do not know who he was.
Q. Was he pretending to be deaf and dumb and was he so ?
A. He did not pretend. He done it. He was not dumb.

In Henry Waldo's summation, he also referes to Dummy being in "soldiers pants." But of course, there are many references in this and other written material of participants who were not soldiers, wearing at least one article of soldier's clothing during the 5 day battle.
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Paul O'Brien aka paulo
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:15 am

Hi Donna

I think there's a bit missing in the transcription of Long's testimony when he was stating where the men were from....the transcriber left out McDaniels name second time around

should read : etc etc etc ......McDaniels from Lincoln,Dummy- did not ask where he was from.

He played the dummy just so no one would ask

All very intriguing,he was on a mission of revenge in my opinion,none of the Lincoln County people knew him and most of them on both sides knew each other.....he was'nt one of Kinney's gang.. probably not Hispanic...no more is heard of him after the big killing....David Easton gave a long list of names at the DCOI and does'nt mention him and he knew almost everybody in the County...which is why I maybe thought maybe he was Buck Morton's brother...Morton did ask that a brother,first name Quin,of Lewisburg W.Va. be notified in case of his death.... Dummy definitely heard McSween call out as he appears to have been first in to the yard...

ps if he did'nt ask any questions how did he know what was afoot ?

'anybody who is'nt confused does'nt know what is going on'
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Paul O'Brien aka paulo
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:38 am

It's not right to describe the men at the big shootout as 'Dolan's boys'.

Sure Dolan was there and he probably was instrumental in bringing Kinney and co along to bump up numbers but the unrefutable testimony of participating witnesses at the Dudley Court of Inquiry was they resented being described as 'Dolan ' men.

David Easton,who saw a lot of what went on,described the Seven Rivers men as good citizens and men of property.The fallacy that McSween and Tunstall were coming to relieve a repressed segment of society must be laid to rest once and for all.The Lincoln County War did'nt start with Tunstall's killing,tho' that dastardly act lined up the sides in no uncertain fashion,precipating as it did a rash of revenge murders orchestrated by McSween under guise of law and order..

McSween,fresh from cheating clients in Kansas(Eureka),descended on Lincoln;first he was attorney for the House and rapidly learned the secrets of their success.Running in to Tunstall in Santa Fe while en route to settle up the Fritz policy,the proceeds of which he proceeded to embezzle,he knew he had found a source of funds to finance a takeover.His lousiest trick was to inveigle the sucker Englishman in to writing the letter falsely claiming that Dolan and Major Brady had embezzled tax monies , published as a diversionary tactic in the papers just before McSween was scheduled to appear in court in Mesilla to account for his own management of the Fritz policy proceeds.Fuelled by greed and anti-Catholic sentiments,and allied with Chisum, he orchestrated the atrocious murder of the county sheriff,thus convincing the Seven Rivers men he and Chisum were about to take over Lincoln County by force majeure.As Wallace Olinger said the Lincoln County War was a continuation of Chisum's Pecos War,and so it was.
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Paul O'Brien aka paulo
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PostSubject: Re: Dummy-who was he?   Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:23 am

The mysterious Dummy was with John Long in the Torreon;he left there with Long to set the first fire in the McSween house (northeast kitchen).Long gave him matches to ignite it.Bonney watched them;at the DCOI he said he did not know the man with Long.As Long and Dummy left the kitchen they were fired on by men in the Tunstall store and jumped in the privy sink,where they were soon joined by Buck Powell who had been fired on by the same men as he came up from the river.

For the next 6 hours or so the three stood in the sewage;why Long and Powell did'nt find out more about their mysterious companion during this time seems incredible.At dark they left, and Dummy showed up at the back gate in time for the final shootout,apparently walking in first to take the McSween sucker surrender during which the unsuspecting Beckwith was shot down by the men concealed in the chicken house.The signal to fire was given by McSween shouting 'I will never surrender' and all hell broke loose.

So there is indisputable evidence from prime actors on both sides that no one knew who the hell Dummy was or where he came from.He appears to history on July 15th in the Torreon,to where he may have come with Jim McDaniels,and vanishes from the record July 20th without even stopping to join in the looting of the Tunstall store.

Even a greater mystery than 'Shane'..........
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